Laila Arain & Kim Hamer | How'd You Do It & Why Should I Care?

Laila Arain: 0:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the next episode of the Bay Street Capital Holdings podcast titled How'd You Do It & Why Should I Care? This series aims to highlight women doing amazing work in various industries. So today, we are so lucky to be joined by Kim Hamer, who is author of 100 acts of love. Hi, Kim, lovely to have you on the show. Hi, so

Kim Hamer: 0:18

Great to be here.

Laila Arain: 0:20

So I guess we can start off with a quick introduction as to who you are, and perhaps a main answer to the question of the podcast, which is how do you do it? And why should I care?

Kim Hamer: 0:29

So why should you care? So first of all, I help individuals, managers and HR leaders understand how to be more effective with employees affected by cancer. And most of the time, when we hear about a cancer diagnosis from our friend, we don't feel good, we feel scared for them, we want to do something that shows them how much they care how much we care about them. And oftentimes, we ended up actually saying one of the least helpful things you can say, which is, if you need anything, let me know. And I'll explain a little bit more about why that's the least helpful thing. But one of the reasons I started on this journey, or the reason I started on this journey was because my husband had cancer twice. And then at the age of 44, he died. And our children at the time were 12, nine and seven. And something I noticed during his both his cancer entanglements because I don't refer to them as battles. And after he died was people, some people knew exactly what to do. And they did these small little things that were so deeply helpful. And some other people didn't know what to do. And they just sort of went to this panic. And sometimes they did things that were not helpful. Sometimes they said things that were actually borderline mean. And I know that they didn't mean to at the time. But I also recognize that they didn't know what to do. And one of the things that happened during this period is I started calling these things that people did for us acts of love, because that's what they felt like, you know, they would be like, here, let me pick up your kids from school. That's an act of love. Here's a meal, here's an act of love. Let me fill your car with gas. It's an act of love. And so a few years after my husband died, I sat down and wrote down many of the things that people did for us that were really, really helpful. And then I took a deep dive actually into a little bit of psychology about why we say things that are not helpful when we're really trying to be helpful. And from that sprang my book 100 acts of love, had a girlfriends guide to loving your friend through cancer and loss. And my website, also 100 acts of love. So why should you care is because how you show up for your friend who is dealing with whatever tragedy it is, it doesn't have to be cancer or death, but one of those major life hiccups, how you show up really, really matters to them. And I'm in a testament to that, because I don't think I'd be here without the small and wonderful things that people did for us. During that really difficult time in our lives.

Laila Arain: 2:57

How wonderful that, you know, that book came out of a, you know, your friends helping you out? And I'm just curious, because it doesn't seem like you kind of expected to write a book. So I'm curious, what inspired you to sort of write your book and what made you want to sit down and write about these 100 acts of love?

Kim Hamer: 3:14

That is so that's a really good question. I mean, I joke that I wrote the book for myself. Because if I had been my friends who was watching, you know, me going through this tragedy, I would not have known what to say or what to do. But I really can't even pinpoint the moment where I said, Oh, my God, I have to write this down. But I started, I kept a blog during both my husband's cancer battles and entanglements. And so at that point, I started writing little tips and saying, Hey, I could really use this and have you really use that. And then what happened is people started showing up and I think somewhere around year four or five after he died, I just had this it was almost like a, you know, like, I just had to get it out of me. But I was terrified. I didn't think I was an author. I didn't you know, my dad was an author, my mom was a writer, but I didn't consider myself a writer at all. And so what I started do to break it down and chunk size pieces pieces is I started writing for 17 minutes a day, I set a timer. 15 fell too short. 20 felt way overwhelming. So I set a timer for 15 for 17 minutes every day. And when that timer went off, especially in the beginning, I would stop writing even if I was mid sentence. And what I found was even ending mid sentence allowed me to pick it up. And and and it was it was it wasn't done in my head. So when I went back to it the next day, I could pick it up and start writing. So I actually wrote the book and these 17 minute increments. Wow, I started to get into it. Sometimes they were like 20 minutes or 23 minutes, but rarely did I ever get past like 3435 minutes of writing. So that's how I wrote the book.

Laila Arain: 4:52

That's really interesting. And I'm very surprised that you stopped after 17 minutes each time because usually people would say oh finish your sentence and Is your train of thought before you stop. But I guess that kind of enables you to come back to the book the next day and just feel like you have something to say and continue writing and then get back into the flow of things.

Kim Hamer: 5:11

Yeah. And I knew myself well enough to know that if I got to a, even to this day, when I finished something, even if it's not finished, I feel like I'm done. And it's really hard for me to reengage with, with whatever I'm writing. If I'm in the middle of something, and I stopped mid sentence, especially, it's easier for me to engage. So this whole notion of completion was actually worked backwards. For me, I couldn't be idea of completing something really overwhelmed me. So if I stopped mid sentence, or midway through, it really helped me kind of get to the point where it was completed.

Laila Arain: 5:46

Yep. Oh, awesome. And following on from that, as you mentioned, your mom and dad were both kind of creative writers and writers. I'm curious. Other than that, what were the best resources that helped you along the way when you were writing your book?

Kim Hamer: 5:58

You know, I did it very, very much on my own. But then when I got to what I thought was the final draft, I invited four friends over. And they I put the book up on Google Sheets. And they made comments and we sat down, we did this for several weekends in a row, we sat down, they helped me edit the book, for about two hours, three hours of stretch. And so things that I thought were so clear, because in my head, I knew exactly what I was saying, right? Or what I meant by that same. And they were like, I don't understand this. Why would you put this here? Why would you put that out there, they asked a lot of questions. And they also really encouraged me to dive deeper into my story. Because I think what happens is my story is my story. And, and after a while, it becomes part of me. So I don't think of it as a big deal. Like, I know that when I told some of you all that my husband died at the age of 44, there's a moment of shock, no, like, oh, my gosh, he was so young, and your kids were so young. But for me, since it's part of my story, it's not a big deal anymore. And so they really encouraged me to talk more about my story. And to be really honest about why I was writing that book and what this drive was, because otherwise, I would have kind of glossed over that part of it.

Laila Arain: 7:13

Okay, that's really interesting. And following on from that, I guess this experience definitely cropped up in news unexpected, but were there any lessons that you wish you would have known before starting to write your book?

Kim Hamer: 7:25

Yes, um, to have more courage, I don't know, if there's something that you can teach yourself to have more courage. I think the thing I would have done was rely more on friends, people kept telling me it was a really good idea, and you need to do it. And I just kind of, I poopoo them outright sometimes, you know, because I just couldn't wrap my head around the fact that I had something to say that was worth putting in a book. I feel very grateful that I was able to stick with my with my vision. So one of the things I did about with the book was, I wanted to make it really easy and accessible. So the tips are these, there's, you know, 53 buy her a gas card, this, this chapter is all about the car help, you know, offer to register her car. So I wanted it to be a book where someone goes, Oh, my gosh, what do I do? What do I do? And they open it up? And it says, you know, say you are not alone. Right? And then it gives a little explanation. So I'm very grateful that I stuck. That image was very clear in my head from the beginning. So I'm very grateful that I stuck with that. And I think the other piece of advice I would have given myself probably wasn't just do it. There was so many things. I had so many stories I told in my head about what was going to happen when the book when I did the book, and then I didn't have enough tips to put in the book. And why was there going to be 100 There was so many fear thoughts in my head. And the problem with fear thoughts I find this for everyone is they sound just like us. And they sound really reasonable. And so sometimes it's hard to distinguish between what is a fear thought and what is an actual good caution to take. Yeah.

Laila Arain: 9:04

Oh, well, that's great. And then following on from that, you know, what would you say was your biggest failure when writing this book? And what did you learn from it?

Kim Hamer: 9:13

My biggest failure was waiting for over to discover it. I was like, it's beautiful. It's really well done. She's gonna discover it. And then my life is gonna be great. Right? So, so she hasn't discovered it yet. And that's because my biggest failure was not thinking about the marketing that I was going to do around it. Was was and I still and actually, I'm just now really embracing it, about calling attention to it and about saying, This is why you need this book. And it's so important. And so I think that's my biggest failure was sort of thinking that this was going to be a magic pill. And then I was gonna write, you know, publish this book. And Oprah was gonna discover it and I was gonna get on the Oprah show and I was going to sell a million copies and life was going to be good And there are a million stories out here. Like every one of us has a story that deserves attention and time and for people to, to pay attention to because there's a lesson in them. But we have to do our job of making sure that people know about that story and can tell that story for you, you know, in the marketplace. So I think that's the biggest lesson that I learned. And then I would do over again, for sure. Uh, you

Laila Arain: 10:26

never know, there's still time for Oprah to discover it. So hold up hope I definitely would say,

Kim Hamer: 10:31

I'm on my way there.

Laila Arain: 10:33

Yeah. Following on from that, what would you say is one common myth about writing a book or writing your book specifically that you would like to debunk?

Kim Hamer: 10:42

I think that you have to do it all at once. I mean, this book took me a year to write at 17 minute increments. I didn't do it all all the time. So there's this myth that to be a writer, you have to write a book have to be a writer, I'm not a writer, I just really don't consider myself a writer. I am good at giving people directions. You should do this. That's where this book came from. I think that's the biggest myth. I think the other biggest myth is that is that it needs to be like we have these images of what a book is. And like I said, this book was very clear to me about this image. And people kept saying, No, you need to do it this way. And I kept holding on to this as what I want it to be like, you know, I want it to be sort of a coffee table book. And so being really clear on what your images and what you the vision you have for that and just stay true to that. I think that's, that's that's those are the those are the those are the things that are really difficult, but that are that I think sometimes people like there's this myth that you have to be a writer, you have to have some type of message when I started this, I didn't have a message.

Laila Arain: 11:49

Oh, you know, I think that's the best way to start with a clear mind and just have that, you know, Canvas sort of write your own book.

Kim Hamer: 11:55

Yep. I will say this exactly. And it's trust the process. Yeah, I didn't have a message, until I realized I was calling it 100 acts of love. Because was when I was writing these things that people had done or things that I wish people had done, or stories that I heard that, you know, someone had done for a friend, I realized, Oh, these are acts of love. That's all these are. And once that once that happened, I was just trusting the process of writing down the tips, and then all of a sudden, that's where the name came from.

Laila Arain: 12:25

That's great. And more about you because I'm curious, what have you read or listened to recently, this really inspired you?

Kim Hamer: 12:32

Oh, my God. So I am into Brene Brown's podcasts on? Oh, I'm going on and we're gonna have right now she's two podcasts on Spotify. And I have listened to and re listen to her podcast, I think it's their to lead podcast. Yeah. And really super, super powerful. Not because she her podcasts are resource rich. And so I find them you know, I'm able to pick things out and look up studies from things that she said and follow people, and really do more research, because I've often I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, you know, a doctor or anything and I talk about these feelings of, of when I will absolutely. Let's talk really, right. Now, let's talk about why you don't say if you need anything, let me know. The number one reason you don't say that is because you're putting the pressure on the person who was under a great amount of stress to figure out what you mean by anything, right? If you offered that to me, or if I offered it to you. Did you know, do you know that? I mean, did I mean that I would take care of your child? If you have one? Did I mean that I would sit with your dying mother? Did I mean I would just get you pick up a gallon of milk, right? So anything is too big a word to wrap anyone's head around. So that's the first thing. The second thing is when you say that you're asking me to break down my day into bite sized pieces. And, you know, we don't normally go around going, Hey, I would like some toothpaste. When brushing my teeth. I'm almost out of soap. And I could do some laundry detergent cuz I need to wash my clothes, or I really need a housekeeper because my house is filled with like, we don't go around thinking that way. And so you say if you need anything, you're then not only you're saying, You're asking me to figure out what anything is to you. But now you're asking me to take break down my day and bite sized pieces to figure that out. And third is let's say just by chance. I know the thing that I need. And now you're asking me to have the courage when I am feeling under a great amount of stress, extremely vulnerable, my life is falling apart. You have the courage to ask you to do something that you may not want to do. And I have to risk you're either going to not really one on one of the dues that rejection or you're not doing it all. Yeah, there's no way that I'm going to call you with that one thing. And psychologically, we offer this because sometimes we don't we were nervous About getting close, we're nervous about connecting on the empathetic level, say we can do anything, then that allows us to take a step back. And we have to be action oriented, because anything is like a gallon of milk wash the car, right? It's action oriented action to us feel so much better than sitting inside the grief or the difficulty. But in reality, that is how we connect. That's actually what drives us feeling connected to each other. And so, with Brene, brown, I knew that instinctually that was what it was when I couldn't quite put my finger on it. And now all of a sudden, she's offering me studies that show that is exactly you know, how we connect and why it's so important. So that's, so that's why I'm into her podcast right now. I've listened to them all, I go back, I listened to them, once I've gone back and listened to several of them taking lots of notes. I've gone back and listened to a third time and pulled the research that she talked about. So it's I find them very inspiring for me where I am right now, in my building my business.

Laila Arain: 16:07

That's great. And then as you mentioned, you had very many people who you could rely on, due to the unfortunate circumstances with your husband, but who were three people in your life who were the most influential to you?

Kim Hamer: 16:20

You know, I saw that you hand me this question. And I was like, I don't know. I'm

Laila Arain: 16:25

I know, I'm sorry, I had to only be three people, I'm sure.

Kim Hamer: 16:29

I have to say, as I as my children get older, my husband died 12 years ago. So as my children get older, and I know this sort of a stock answer, but it really is watching my children navigate the world dealing with grief. Because what I've noticed they have done is they are vulnerable and really key moments, I used to tell them that they find that you know that all hearts are dented. And we often find people with the same sort of dents. And so they're able to find people who have lost a parent and they, they gain these really close and intimate friendships with these people. Their hearts are so deeply big because of their experience. And I watched I watched my, my both my sons, you know, really come to the aid of someone who had lost a sibling or come to the aid to pick up people who were feeling loss, you know, just themselves and, and give them a space to express that loss. And so those I mean, if I had, you know, I could say thanks to Poulsen as well, but I won't count those as I'll count those as one. So I think that's my children. I think really, people who inspire me are there's a woman who, um, her name is Michelle Neff, Hernandez, and she started something called soaring spirits International, which is a widow's group, and she started doing something called Camp widow. And, and it is a camp for widows who are mostly under 50. And I remember the first time I went, I was absolutely terrified. I went by myself, like I didn't know very many other young widows. And I walked into the room, and I remember feeling this great amount of relief. Just just just disappear. Because I didn't have to tell my story. I didn't have to deal with the, oh my god, that's so horrible. All those things that made me feel other and different from people. I got to walk in the room. And I noticed that everyone in there had the same story. And so she really inspired me to do the same thing. But to do it for people who want to support their friends, because oftentimes, people will want to support their friends are also feeling isolated, and they don't know what to do. And they have all these questions. They just want to be in a room with other people where they go, I tried someone goes, Oh, my gosh, me too. And this is what they said. So she really inspired me. And then I think the other person who really inspired me is I, I have a mentor, a spiritual mentor, spiritual guide. And the woman who got me to him really inspired me because she lives out loud. So what she did was, I remember I didn't know her very well, but I called her the day before my husband died, it was very clear that he was dying. We were in the hospital. And I had spent all this time in the hospital room with him I needed to get out because people kept visiting, and no one who I knew who had visited had had any experience like this. And she had told me a lot a while ago that her husband and that her father had died. And I just felt this gentleness about that comment that she made. And I called her and we went out to lunch. And it was just the sweetest, kindest moment and I realized then that she she lived very open with her heart very open and I had I wanted to live like her and it took me years and I'm still trying to live like her. But to be honest and open and frank and vulnerable, like she was just so openly vulnerable. And so she's she's the third person who really inspires me, especially as I build this business, she's built a separate business on around the different topic, but I watch her build that business and I, you know, I watch her, you know, I want to be like her and live like her. So those are the three or six or five people who really inspire me the most

Laila Arain: 20:21

amazing. And then finally, to round up our conversation for the day. What is one piece of advice that you wish you gave yourself at any point in your life?

Kim Hamer: 20:31

You know, I'm so this is so not, you know what, I'm gonna do this one, be vulnerable. Like, and stop judging the feelings. I have stopped myself from doing so many things because of my not because of the feeling I had about doing it. But because I judge the feeling I had about it. So if I was feeling scared, I judge the fear as you're not good enough. You don't you're not brave enough. You're just not doing it. Well, you can't do it. So I judged it that way. Instead of honoring, yeah, I'm scared. Like, I'm really scared. I don't know what's gonna happen. And I'm just gonna go for it anyway. So I think that's the advice I would have given myself, my 18 year old self, just to you know, like, not to judge the feelings of feelings are just feelings. They are not right. They are not wrong. They are just feelings. And I went through a large part of my life being the judge, jury and executioner based on the feelings that I had, and judging them as wrong or bad, or scary and not taking action because of that.

Laila Arain: 21:43

Well, yes, a very important message. So thank you once again, Kim, for taking the time to speak with me today. Our conversation was so enlightening and just very, very engaging overall.

Kim Hamer: 21:51

Well thank you. I'm so honored to be here. I'm so honored to be have been asked to really appreciate everything that you're doing. And thank you so much for inviting me,

Laila Arain: 22:00

of course. All right, then take care.