Laila Arain & Kindred Murillo | How'd You Do It & Why Should I Care?

Laila Arain: 0:00

Hi everyone. Welcome to the next episode of the Bay Street Capital Holdings podcast titled How'd You Do It & Why Should I Care? This series aims to highlight women doing amazing work in various industries. So today we are so lucky to be joined by Dr. Kindred Morello, who is owner of the ascending consulting Hi, Dr. Morello. How are you?

Kindred Murillo: 0:19

Good morning. How are you?

Laila Arain: 0:21

I'm very well, thank you. Thanks so much for hopping on the podcast.

Kindred Murillo: 0:25

Oh, it's a great opportunity. Laila, I've listened to several of your podcasts and I love that you're doing a feature on diversity, equity and inclusion. That's, that's the work I love.

Laila Arain: 0:37

Amazing one. So glad to hear it. So we can jump straight into the questions perhaps. Let's start off with a quick introduction about who you are, and perhaps in mean answer to the question of the podcast, which is how do you do it and why should I care?

Kindred Murillo: 0:49

Okay, well, I'm Kindred Murillo and I just retired from the California Community College System fraud for 24 years, or I started as a faculty member, and kind of worked my way through the system. I actually am a community college graduate. I, part of the reason I do what I do is because Community College saved me. It's something that I hold very personally because I had messed up my life pretty well, I wouldn't say totally messed it up. But I had gone down a pretty rough path when I was a teenager and went to Barstow Community College. And a lot of professors had a lot of faith in me and taught me that I could do things. So that was really important. So I, I actually, in my second career came to the community college system, and I never intended to be a college president. My last 10 years I spent as a college president and the last 10 years, I was doing a lot of work around equity and inclusion, because that is so important in higher ed. That's why people should care, higher education matters. Teachers matter.

Laila Arain: 2:11

Yeah, I think teachers are definitely people who shape you in your life. And I think everybody remembers that one teacher or professor that they had during their schooling career who had a really big impact on them. But I guess my next question to you is, what inspired you to sort of join the industry have become if the college you know, system? Was it that experience that you had sort of how community kind of saved you? Or was it more?

Kindred Murillo: 2:37

I think it was more, because by the time I joined this system, I was actually midlife. So it was kind of that second career, I think it was everything I learned along the way about doing something constructive. So what I did was I worked in the electric utility industry, which had a real big restructuring, because of electric deregulation. So I spent a lot of time laying off people, because we were downsizing. And we were having to slim down our expenses. So when I finished my master's degree, I really decided I wanted to do something constructive, something that builds people's lives, rather than walking into an office and saying, I'm sorry, your job is disappearing. And that I think, became sort of a driver for me was to do something that really helped people kind of meet their potential, like people helped me when I was in community college. And so that's why I went into teaching.

Laila Arain: 3:44

Awesome. Yeah, I feel like you were kind of trying to also give back to what you'd receive. So I think that's a wonderful way to put it. And then what were the best resources that helped you along in your journey into becoming, you know, a president of president of a college, which is such an amazing feat?

Kindred Murillo: 4:01

Well, I'll always say people, people that help you are always some of the best resources because they're the ones that will give you feedback. You need really good mentors, and people that are willing to say, you know, you might want to think about how you did that and reflect on that a little bit are, you know, are just be willing to listen to you. And so that was something for me that was important. I was an avid reader. I think I saw a quote recently, somewhere somebody was talking about the fact that, you know, leaders read, not all readers are leaders, but all leaders read, and you need to read widely, vastly. You need to hear all the different points of view. You need to hear what people have to say. I think one of the things I got into in the late 80s and early 90s Was there used to be old cassette tapes, where you listen to Inspirational Leaders who talked about leadership and the kinds of things you needed to do now, we have podcasts, right? Yes. So it's, it's a different thing. But I did, I did a lot of that I drove probably, I would say 110,000 miles a year for probably five or six years into podcasts, cons are tapes, I just had tapes over and over listened to. And so that was part of it. And then I'll tell you the thing that I always pass on to people that I help mentor, or coach. And that's your reflections of what you learn from making a mistake. Because if you wait, what you do, when you make a mistake, if you stop it and go, Wait a minute, I could have done that better. Or I shouldn't have done that I could have done this, and you get back up, and you do it differently. To me, that's important. Because if you get back up and then try to do the same thing you did before, you're really not learning. And I think that's the big piece, be a learner. He's somebody that's always curious what's going on over here. What can I read over here? What's happening? You know, who's talking over here that I need to hear? And I think that's a really important piece, especially if you're an educator.

Laila Arain: 6:30

Definitely. And speaking about mistakes actually thinking about the span of your career, what would you say was your biggest failure? And what did you learn from it?

Kindred Murillo: 6:38

Well, I think the biggest failure was, I was in a job as vice president of the college and the boss that I worked for, and I did not get along. And I loved the college. I mean, I loved the people, I love the faculty. And I left, I think, in a way I let her put me in the position of not being my best self and not standing up to her and saying, I'm I don't have to put up with this. I don't have to put up with you slamming doors in my face and yelling at me. I think I could have done that better. You know, the part that I always remind myself is I wouldn't ended up where I am, if I had stayed. And I learned something from that. So I think that, for me was a failure. But I also learned that tenacity, and resilience and standing up for what you believe, is really important.

Laila Arain: 7:48

Definitely. And that's such a great piece of advice. And following on from that, what is one piece of advice that you would give to somebody who is wanting to pursue a career similar to yours,

Kindred Murillo: 7:58

you know, as I think be a learner, I think that you, you really need to keep learning and, and I also think sometimes what happens, people get into education. And they forget the reason why they get into education, which is students, right. And, you know, I'm one of those people, when I would interview faculty or an administrator, if I didn't hear the words, student or students or something very similar. Probably in the first two to three questions. I was like, sitting there being very concerned that this person is probably not focused on the right thing. You know, that's, are you focused on yourself? Or are you focused on that student, and making sure they have an opportunity like you had? And I think that if you're going to be an educator, your students have to be front and center of everything that you do. And therefore that means you're going to be the best person you can be.

Laila Arain: 9:18

Definitely. And I feel like a lot of people know a lot about the education industry already, or at least they might think they do, because it's quite, you know, a well known industry, but what is one common myth about the industry that you'd like to debunk right here right now?

Kindred Murillo: 9:34

You know, sometimes people say that. You know, I hear this a lot and I read reports and, and some of my colleagues will, might take issue with this, but I, I hear this piece that always says that education is the great equalizer. And I think it I think the real truth of this is education. You can be the great equalizer when done? Well, yeah. And the reason I say that is because education has not always been equitable. You know, like the last 10 years of my life I've spent working in sort of the equity, diversity, inclusion area. And education has been. I feel like sometimes blind to what students really need to help support them. Because students come from all kinds of places, all walks of life, all kinds of backgrounds, and what works for one student may not work for another. And it can be the great equalizer, when done well. And I think we're starting to really recognize that in a way that will ultimately make a difference. You know, it's gonna take a while,

Laila Arain: 10:59

for sure, but, you know, one step is a step towards the brighter future in education for sure.

Kindred Murillo: 11:06

Yeah, I think so. You know, I think one of the things that I've seen in the last 10 years, I remember when I was first taught about what we used to call the achievement gap, but we don't use that language anymore, because that puts the onus on the student at saying that they're deficient. And really, it comes down to us as educators. And so we call it the equity gap. And any student that we don't give opportunity to, is, we're wrong, we need to make sure every student has the opportunity to have access to education, to having support for education, having the kinds of teachers that really care, and are interested in your learning. I, you know, one of the things that, and I say this very proudly is we put together what we called an advancing equity teaching academy, at my, my most recent college that I was the presenter now, as part of our anti racism, work, which was we wanted to teach our faculty how to help our students succeed. And it was really around culturally responsive teaching, making sure that you know, I'm sure you've probably read Paulo threadbare Bell Hooks, were really helping our students, and not just saying, Oh, we're gonna pour this knowledge into you. And you just need to repeat what we say, we want to take your experience and help you be a better learner. You know, and that's a difference than when I went to school where they basically, oh, you need to learn this. And this is what you have to do. And we really don't want to hear about your experience we just want to teach you. It's important to involve the student in higher education.

Laila Arain: 13:10

For sure, definitely. And I'm sure you're very busy at the moment with your own company. But I'm curious, you mentioned earlier that you're a big podcast listener or what they weren't cassette tapes in the time. But what have you read or listened to recently, this really inspired you?

Kindred Murillo: 13:24

Well, I'm, you know, I do listen to a lot of podcasts, they've become really important. One of the, the books that I listened to, I loved Malcolm Gladwell is talking with strangers. I think that that book inspired me to really try to understand conversations better and interactions better. I think he takes apart several worldwide kinds of cases. And particularly the one that I found most interesting was Sandra Bland, and where he really, really pulled that apart and and looked at the dynamic of what happened in that situation. And it makes it really helps me stop and say, before I pass judgment on anything, or any incident, I need to understand more about what happened. And the people because there's, there's such pieces around working with human beings that I think we all need to know. So that was really inspiring to me. The other one that I loved is Emanuel ANCO did a podcast with Brene Brown, which was it was like I had to listen to it three times because it was just so good, you know, in the sense of somebody trying to help For people that are white, or people that are not black really understand what it's like to be black. And he does it and he uses the, quote, speak truth with love and grace. And I think when I was listening to that, you know, I've listened to and read a lot, you know, I loved cast, you know, it really gets into some really good information we all need to know. But I think one of the things that Emanuel did was do his discussion in a way that really compelled you to want to do something different. And the other person that really inspired me that way was Aiko. bethia, I think she also was very inspiring, and her words about how we can do anti racism. Better. And, and doing it in a way where I think we don't make people enemies. You know, and I think that's the part that I always loved about. Leadership is how do you help people come together? That are from so many different backgrounds, so many different races, ethnicities, you know, abilities the way they think, and be able to get all those ideas in a room so that you can make better decisions. I really believe we make better decisions when we have a diverse team around us. You know, and I believe that so strongly that I put together a very diverse team, my last years of community college leadership, so that I had different voices at the table that went, Well, you know, my experience with police officers has been this. And this person could say over here, well, my experience has been this. And we can really come to good discussions about what what, what do we need to do, to refocus and help our students better? So I think it's, it's an absolutely critical time to reflect on leaders who are willing to come out and talk about what we need to do to change our nation.

Laila Arain: 17:48

Definitely. And I think we touched upon this a little earlier, but who were three people in your life who have been the most influential to you?

Kindred Murillo: 17:56

Oh, either. Yeah. You wrote that you asked that question? Well, first off in my early life, I would tell you, my grandmother, my grandmother believed in me when nobody did. And she taught me that fairness. standing firm for what you believe she was a woman of faith. And she was just somebody that taught me to be a good person. The next person, I think that it was sort of midlife. It was sort of a love hate relationship for a while. It's always like, when you have somebody I remember her telling me, You're not ready to be a college president yet, but by the time you finish working for me, you will be and she wasn't kidding. I mean, literally, she was the hardest person I ever worked for. And she also was the person that really helped me understand that I needed to step up in a way that I wasn't, I wasn't being a real leader. I was being shy, quiet, not standing up for what I believed in. And I think the day that I recognized how much influence she had on me was when I stood up in front of a group of colleagues, and this was in 2018. And I said, you know, we are taking racism head on at our college. We are not, we are talking about it worse. We're dealing with it. We're we're working on it. And I think when I found myself saying that in front of my colleagues, I went okay. Her lessons had finally really taken hold. You really need to fight for what you believe in. Because if you don't Who is it? You will make a difference.

Laila Arain: 20:02

Definitely. And then, yeah, so third person,

Kindred Murillo: 20:07

third person, I am a huge fan of Barack Obama, and have been for, you know, he's kind of like that figure out there, I read his book Audacity of Hope, watched him during his presidency as he grew. And he admitted he was growing, and then read his recent book, promise land. And I feel like when I read his book, I'm listening to him talk with me in a way, because he just writes in such a way that makes me want to read what he has to say, and where you learn from it. Because he's a learner. He's somebody you can admire, because he admits, okay, I probably should have done this, or I could have done this better. And he learned from it. And so that's somebody that, you know, his humility, his kindness, his empathy, and his leadership all have really influenced my last few years as a college president.

Laila Arain: 21:18

Amazing. And then finally, to round off our conversation, what is one piece of advice that you wish you gave yourself at any point in your life?

Kindred Murillo: 21:27

You know, that was the hardest question you asked me, because it's kind of like, there's been so many pieces of advice that, you know, I think the one thing that probably sticks out the most is believe in yourself, when you are telling yourself something, it now um, I think for so many years, I was, I was told to, oh, you don't need to be sensitive about this, or you don't, shouldn't worry about that. Or, you know, and I gotta tell you, when you know, something, and you dismiss it. And you still know, it is really the right thing to do, or it's the thing you shouldn't do, really reflected, reflecting on that would have been something I should have done more of early on, because I think I didn't have enough confidence in myself when I was younger, to really believe that I was worth something, I never felt worthy, probably until I was in my mid 30s. And then it took a long time and degrees and learning to sort of make me realize, I have something to give. And that what I know sometimes is right, and that I need to do what I feel is the right thing to do for my life. And for me. And I think so times I let things pushed me to in the directions of what other people thought I should do. And I think sometimes women make that mistake, probably the ones that grew up in my era where we were coming into the workforce, and we were not really as valued. Still not we still have gender pay issues in our country. And we continue to try to change that. So, you know, it's that you have to really believe in yourself.

Laila Arain: 23:44

Definitely what a useful piece of advice, especially for anybody starting out in their career. And yeah, that wraps up our conversation. So thank you so much, Dr. Murillo, for taking the time to speak with me today. It was absolutely wonderful to have this amazing conversation about your journey.

Kindred Murillo: 23:58

Thank you. Well, it was a pleasure. And I've enjoyed your podcasts. So I've kind of tried to get through some of them and listen to the different people you've interviewed. Because I think this is important conversations around, you know, the fact that you're interviewing different people, different diversities, different, you know, careers, and I think that's a really lovely thing to do. So thank you.

Laila Arain: 24:27

Cool. Well, thank you so much again, for bye bye