Laila Arain & Tania DeSa | How'd You Do It & Why Should I Care?

Laila Arain: 0:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the next episode of the Bay Street Capital Holdings podcast titled How'd You Do It & Why Should I Care? This series aims to highlight women doing amazing work in various industries. So today, we are so lucky to be joined by Tania DeSa, who is CEO of DSR Global Leadership. Hi Tania, lovely to have you on the show.

Tania DeSa: 0:18

You too. Oh, thank you so much. I'm great. It's great to be here.

Laila Arain: 0:22

Pretty amazing. Oh, I'm so happy that you're here. So let's first jump into the questions, I guess. So let's have a quick introduction about yourself and perhaps an answer to the main question of the podcast, which is How'd you do it and why should I care?

Tania DeSa: 0:34

Oh I love that. Let's dive right in. So my name is Tania DeSa, coming to you from Toronto, Canada, regular we're based CEO of Desa Global Leadership, and who I am many different roles and titles and parts of my identity, CEO, woman of color, keynote speaker, all of those things. But really, why should you care? Let me link to my life purpose, my mission, which is I'm on a mission to inspire women and underrepresented minorities, to find that voice of visibility in corporate environments. So that the end of the day, they're coming to work, feeling fired up, engaged, and connected, and they're getting promoted, we want to see more diversity and executive levels in corporate America, corporate environments across the globe. So linking into why you should care is whether you are a family member of somebody, you know, you have a daughter, or sister, or a mother, or a person of color is in your life in we should all care about how we're all showing up at work. And we all have a role to play when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, whether you're part of an underrepresented minority group, or you're an ally, we all have a role to play. And linking in to my personal story. There was many years where I was in a corporate environment where I felt invisible. I felt like I wanted to make an impact. And I was not seen and heard. And it felt lonely. For a lot of years, it felt really soul sucking. And it was living through that I realized we have to do things a better way, there can be a better way. And so that's kind of what lit the fire into leaving my corporate job and moving into this entrepreneurial, wild world, starting a business where that is the mission to help people be seen and heard in corporate environments.

Laila Arain: 2:39

That's such a lovely message. And I think that that inspiration definitely comes across in the way you speak about your company. So I'm curious, what were the best resources that helped you become an entrepreneur and start your own company?

Tania DeSa: 2:50

No. So you know, one of the things when I was in corporate there was a wonderful book that I read by Martha Beck. It's called Finding Your Own North Star. And it was almost like a workbook, I felt like she was my personal coach, as I was reading this book, going through it really taking time to reflect on how I was feeling linking into why I was there in that particular role, what my impact was. So it was an incredible resource at the right moment in time, where it guided me into thinking about what is the impact? I want to have, you know, short term and long term, the end of the day, what do I really want to be known for. And I found going through that self discovery process through the tools and the advice of Martha Beck really helped me put a leadership stake in the sand, and pivot from leaving a corporate environment to taking on risk and believing in myself that I could do it. And also understanding that entrepreneurship is kind of a series of experiments, right? You have to be willing to dive in to try something new to risk failure to realize that failure can propel you and leapfrog you to where you want to go next. It's like highs and lows. It's a huge roller coaster. But if you're up for that, and that excites you, then it's definitely a playground to plan.

Laila Arain: 4:14

Definitely I definitely agree that about entrepreneurship as well. You've got to be ready to take that risk to jump into what could be a failure or what could be an ultimate success. So I really admire you for that. And, you know, it seems like you read quite a lot before you entered into the entrepreneurship space. But I'm curious, what are any lessons that you wish you would have known before starting your own company?

Tania DeSa: 4:35

Yeah, you know, I think there's a few number one is, I think sometimes when we make the leap between stable job or getting a paycheck every day, you know, we have colleagues we don't many of us go into an office or now maybe a remote or virtual office, but there are people to connect with. I didn't realize I used to think that had to be one or the other, right. You're either in corporate or you're in entrepreneur, but there is this middle ground where you can have a side hustle, you can test out your ideas, you can pilot programs, you can start to dabble your toe in the world of entrepreneurship, while still having the safety net of it a potential full time job or a part time job. So I wish I had known that that was an option that I couldn't experimented and tested things out how realistic that would have been for me with time, energy and the amount that I traveled, I honestly don't know. But it was nice to know that there is an option. The second thing I realized is that you need to have a support network, you know, when you're making a shift, and I think this is in the entrepreneurial world, but in any career, you know, whether you're brand new and early in your career journey, or you're middle management, going into executive leadership positions in the corporate world, we need to have peeps in our corner, we need to have cheerleaders and advocates and mentors and sponsors, we need to have a support network. And there's huge value in creating that for yourself. And I think there's, I like to think of it as my board, my personal board of directors, right? There's going to be some friends that I can talk to and bounce ideas off of, there's going to be mentors, who are a few steps ahead of me who can give me advice, there's going to be sponsors who can talk about me in rooms that I am not in yet. They can champion for me, but you need all those people around the table cheering you on or challenging you when you least expect it. And so there's value in very intentionally building that roundtable or that network that thinks is key. I wish I had known that earlier. And it's something I'm very intentional about now. So,

Laila Arain: 6:45

ya know that I definitely agree the power of the network is so so underrated, I think because like people will think Oh, you must network with people who are farther on in your career, but like their career, but actually, you know, your peers are your best network. And also those who are up and coming in their career are also so useful. You can learn a lot from people. And yeah, I think people need to notice that as well.

Tania DeSa: 7:07

Lately, you're also talking about something so important peer mentorship, and reverse mentoring, right? Who says, Being newer in your career journey, you can advise a vice president on tech or social media, SEO, that there's so many things we can give to each other and make that value added relationships. I love that.

Laila Arain: 7:25

Definitely. And the following on from that you mentioned, you touched on this a little earlier when talking about entrepreneurship. But what would you say was your biggest failure in your career? And what did you learn from it?

Tania DeSa: 7:37

My biggest failure, in a way was staying too long in a role that wasn't serving me. I thought I had my dream job. And my last corporate role, I was running a big marketing department for a big American health care company in Switzerland. And I thought, Oh, I made it, you know, this is it. And it sounds amazing. And it was doing really cool projects. And I did love my colleagues. But slowly, I started to look around. And I realized that in many rooms, I was the youngest. I was the only female on the management team. I was the only visible minority and I was the only North American on this really panEuropean team felt lonely. And I realized like it started, it was starting to weigh on me and feel so heavy, day after day after day, and I probably stayed longer than I should have. It took a toll on my health, it took a toll on the relationships in my life. And I wish I had had the courage to make a move sooner. But I think we all learn something from those experiences, like failure is just an opportunity to learn. And you know, you get a great story under my belt. And it always reminds me to be aware and to have these check ins with myself on how are we doing? How are we feeling about this, whether that's working on new projects, or specific team members, even in client relationships now, you know, I try to check in with myself more often. So that I can avoid that mistake again of staying too long, and not being courageous enough to make the move.

Laila Arain: 9:15

Definitely. And I'm glad you kind of made that move and you realize you came to your own realization about you are uncomfortable and you're unhappy in that role. Because I feel like that's more powerful than somebody telling you.

Tania DeSa: 9:25

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes we don't receive that feedback, or, you know, we get defensive, or we don't really if we're not ready to hear it. It'll just wash off. So think there's something about you have to be ready to receive that feedback, and be ready to take the leap of faith. What maybe it's

Laila Arain: 9:42

scary, I would agree. I end up dropping some really great pieces of advice throughout the conversation, but what advice would you give somebody who was wanting to pursue a career similar to yours?

Tania DeSa: 9:53

Yeah, so we're in that professional development and leadership training space, and I feel I meet a lot of fantastic to coaches who want to do amazing work, who want to help people change the life, who want to help people to make courageous steps in their career or you know, in their life, the advice that I would offer is, don't try to be everything to everyone. I think so often, and maybe this is an entrepreneur thing. Actually, it also, it's a human thing. I think that there are probably so many times in life, whether that's in a relationship, whether that's in a in a job, or as an entrepreneur, and starting off, well, we try to be everything to everyone. There's no boundaries, we say yes to everything. And we lose a little piece of who we are somewhere along the way. We overextend ourselves, especially in a remote workplace, or in this COVID world where so many different roles are blending into one, you could be a chef or teacher, a mom, you know, a friend, and neighbor, all these different roles you're playing simultaneously. So we need to have boundaries, we need to really prioritize and focus on what's most important in the entrepreneurial side or in business. That means finding your niche, decide who you want to work with, what is the impact you want to make, and the best thing I ever did was we ever did was niche. You know, we're really leadership training through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion. That's what we are known for. That is our area of specialization. And it is helped us grow our business and our impact in a really powerful way. So I think don't try to be everything to everyone focus. That's the key.

Laila Arain: 11:37

Definitely. And, finally, about your career, I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions about entrepreneurship, and also the leadership industry. I'm curious, what is one myth about your career profession that you would like to debunk right here right now?

Tania DeSa: 11:50

Cool myth. That it always has to be one to one I feel like or that there's, there's, wherever you whatever, wherever you've come from, is value added. I think so often, people think, Oh, I haven't had a background in HR, how can I possibly work with people and grow and develop, you know, maybe I come from a technical background like engineering, or you know, somewhere and opportunity in STEM, you can pivot. And there is value in owning your career journey and pulling out those lessons learned in bridging who you are into what you do. So I think don't discount where you've come from, instead, pull those lessons may connect the dots, that's up to you to connect the dots. And the way that I think that's applicable for this industry, you know, people development, coaching, professional development, but it's also important, if you're a people leader, if you're a manager, or mentor, you know, you need to be able to connect the dots from your own life experience. And that goes from outside work to WHO HAVE YOU BEEN as a person of color, as a person growing up in a specific socio economic neighborhood, you know, if you've traveled outside of the US, or you know, you're an expat, and you're, maybe you're working in your third language, bring more of who you are into work every day. hear those stories, in projects, and it may help you better connect with your markets and customers, and may help you better connect with the people that you're wanting to get into your team and attracting top talent in or keeping them there. So I think there's this huge opportunity for us to bring more of who we are outside of work into work in order to create a different vibe, and one where we can be all of who you are. We are every day.

Laila Arain: 13:47

Yeah, that's amazing. And I love that. I think yeah, definitely, I feel in corporate America, sometimes you can get lost in like, you know, just doing the work by now I felt an entrepreneurship, you have more freedom to be yourself and just to bring your own self to work.

Tania DeSa: 14:01

Yeah, and it takes guts to do that, right? Let's face it, it takes courage to be all of who you are every day to put that on a website to speak that out loud in your value proposition to put that on LinkedIn. It takes courage and also a sense of self awareness, you have to know who you are, you got to do the work to figure that out.

Laila Arain: 14:23

Exactly. There's no point if you don't know who you are.

Tania DeSa: 14:26

And I think we can do some market research and, you know, get our friends and family and peers to validate some of that, but you got to know who you are and what is the impact you're looking to make in the world, in your team in the community and really think into those questions in order to show up with that level of confidence. On so many different channels.

Laila Arain: 14:46

Definitely, definitely. And more about you because you seem like such an interesting person. What have you read or listened to recently this really inspired you?

Tania DeSa: 14:55

Oh, so many. So one of my dad's all time favorite books is this book by Spencer Johnson, it's called Who Moved My Cheese. It's a super short book. It's like a fable of these two mice and these two little mini humans. And how this I won't know, spoiler alerts, but it's a great book, I highly recommend it. And it's about change. It's a really simple fable and reminder that we have to move, when the cheese is no longer there in the maze, you have the choice to sit in the corner, and decide and just wait for the opportunities come to you, or you to take action and go seek out those opportunities to go with the flow to go with to understand that change is inevitable and is happening and the action is an accountability is on you to make that next move. So I loved rereading that story. And I actually found out there's a sequel to it. So I was listening to the audiobook a few weeks, like two weeks ago, it's called out of the maze. And that one focuses more on beliefs, right? Beliefs are these stories that we keep telling ourselves and we hold them so close to ourselves, we think that this is who I am. But if you change the narrative, you change the story that you're telling yourself that your internal monologue, you have the power to change your beliefs. And that can be game changing, that can be life changing. So just this is really cool reminder, for me, that, you know, we have power over narratives, we have power over what happens next in our lives. And I loved just the cool, how short the book was, number one. It was a quick read quick audio guy, I love that. And it was a cute fable story, you can listen to it with your kids, you can listen to it. You know, my dad is the one who told me about this. So it was kind of cool. It's very accessible. The other thing I really enjoyed recently was the book. Think again, by Adam Grant, you know, Tim talking about just experimenting more in life, right? Like we see life, I kind of put that scientists head on everything's experiment, we don't take it so seriously, when things go wrong, we can pivot, it was just a hypothesis. So I love that there's an opportunity to not be so attached to our ideas, but instead, put it out there and get the information then decide what to do next. It felt very freeing. And it's given me a new lens on the way that I'm looking at life and relationships and even some are planning, right? In this we're couple of the world is coming out of lockdown, and yep, COVID We have to be creative. We have to be willing to experiment and try new things and see how we feel. It's going to be a whole new world of work and life. So it's all one big experiment, you know, and that really reminded me of that. So it was kind of cool. Well, I

Laila Arain: 17:45

love the sort of contrast between the two books, but I'll definitely make sure to check them out. And then sort of following on from that. Who would you say were three people in your life who have been the most influential to you?

Tania DeSa: 17:57

Oh, my parents. First of all, my mom and dad are incredible people. They are the most enthusiastic people you'll ever meet. So if you thought I was high energy, oh, my goodness, the big eyes, big teeth coming out? Yeah, they are. But what really inspired me about what inspires me is that they are immigrants who come from India and set up a life in Canada. They are entrepreneurs. So when they had a very young family, they took the risk to leave stable corporate jobs, and start out on their own. I think that was very ballsy. It was very, you know, it took grit, I saw that they had incredible work ethic. They had passion, dedication, commitment. And they were an incredible team. They are an incredible team. So really honor, what I've learned almost would have absorbed from growing up with them. And they continue to be huge mentors, and they're on my personal board of directors, they're huge. The other weird say is my grandfather had a very big impact on me. And he passed away when I was five years old. And so it's almost the legacy of who he was and how he was in the world that I have always heard of. That made a difference to me. He's very close to my heart. And, you know, I think if there's ever a chance, you know, sometimes you get asked that question, if you could have dinner with someone dead or alive, who would it be? I would definitely want to have dinner with my grandfather to ask questions and just deepen that relationship. And so the third person is, when I think of epic, like Boss Babes, I think of Sara Blakely, the founder of banks in Atlanta. She's one of the youngest self made female billionaires. I love I follow her on Instagram. I love her stuff on LinkedIn. I just love her. She has it all. She has family, a loving marriage building you know billion dollar company and I Is this these examples that we need in life, we can have it all. It's where we choose to focus. It's who we, you know, our support network, it's leading the way and not it not being perfect. Not realizing that we need to know it all or check these boxes before we go into entrepreneurship. And before we start our company, I really take that away from her. So she's a mentor in my life, even though I haven't met her yet, but I'm getting. But she's a huge mentor in my life.

Laila Arain: 20:28

Oh, amazing. And that's lovely to hear that you are surrounded by such amazing people who supported you throughout your journey. Yeah, so thank you. And then finally, to wrap up our conversation, what is one piece of advice that you wish you gave yourself at any point in your life?

Tania DeSa: 20:44

At any point in my life? Oh, probably a lot of advice for myself. Hmm. Probably the thing about trust, having faith and not putting so much pressure on myself, I think there were, you know, I look back on life, my journey, there were many times where I invested time and energy into the doing into leaping into action. And, you know, there's something to be said about hard work, but overdoing it or trying to burn yourself out by the doing, I could probably have chilled a little bit more. And remember that who we're being matters to how we're showing up every day, who were you know, taking the lessons. Trusting and having more faith that who I am matters and is enough at specific moments in my life is probably the advice and whisper into my ear at certain moments in my life.

Laila Arain: 21:45

Amazing. Well what a lovely note to end on. So thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. It was truly engaging to have this conversation.

Tania DeSa: 21:53

Oh thank you Laila was fantastic to chat with you and love your energy. And I love that you're having conversations with incredible people all over the world. So thank you for that. Thank you for what you're doing.

Laila Arain: 22:03

Thank you so much. All right, then bye bye.